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Bill, Ed and Cliff

Bill, Ed and Cliff

REMEMBERING SCORGIES
By Ed Richter

Wow. A Scorgies Reunion. What can I say? After all these years?

Is it true? Sure Is. I am friends with Stan Merrell. He says it’s true.

I am friends with Tom Kohn. He says it’s true. OK, I’ll be there.

What do I remember? I remember getting dressed up. Doing my hair and getting together a couple of girls and heading down to Andrews street.

The stories are in hundreds. Don Scorgie always made the biggest hamburgers in Rochester. He also had a knack for picking national bands about a week before they hit it big. He also gave many local bands their first chance to appear on stage.For some strange reason Don liked me. I got free hamburgers.

But best of all I became Scorgies House Videographer. Yep. I still have all the videos I shot. I shot Personal Effects, New Math, and the Press Tones,  The Chesterfield Kings and of course the Tinglers. At the time I shot the Press Tones they were calling themselves The Pistoleros. The song they were doing at the time was called “Pistol On My Hip“. I also shot the Waitresses, the Comateens (they did the Munsters Theme) and other national acts that appeared in the Rochester area like the Divinyls, Billy Idol.

Cliff Owens on Guitar

Cliff Owens on Guitar

As far as local bands went, one of my favorites was the Tinglers: featuring Bill Curchin as Lead Singer and Cliff Owen as Lead Guitarist. They were the center of the band, and both of them touched me later in my life in a special way.

After Scorgies, Cliff went to law school and was a Assistant District Attorney under Howard Relin. Now he is part of the team at Fiandach & Fiandach. He represented me on a recent legal affair I was involved in, and he’s a nice guy.

As for Bill Curchin,  yeah,  he touched my life recently. Sadly, he died in 2006. Bill how could you do this to us??? Bill was the real essence of cool. He taught me a few things about being cool. “Just be cool and you stay cool”. Wacky statement I guess you had to know Bill. I miss the guy.

Bill Curchin on Vocals

Bill Curchin on Vocals

Anyway I have tons of Videos and photographs I took at the time and will try as hard as I can to get them together for all of you to enjoy. I will write more soon.

I leave you with a few photos of The Tinglers and Myself.

Ed Richter 10/08


Editor’s note: Ed Richter passed away September 22, 2022. If anyone has information on Ed’s archives, shoot us a message. RIP Edwin…

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When I first started hanging out at Scorgies, I enjoyed going downstairs and hanging out, especially when Luke Warm was in the DJ booth spinning records. No matter what we had at WRUR or in stock at the Record Archive Luke would always have something new and different to play. If I told him I had the 7″ single of the Dynamic Hepnotics “Hepno-Beat” he’d one up me with the 12″ remix.
However, I am ill qualified to properly memorialize Luke. His life was bigger than my memories, and so I asked Pat Lowery (ex Party Dogs, Family Love Probe, Five Star Buffalo, Bulus, Lotus STP, SLT, Big and Pretty, Hotheads, Rat Kings) to pen a fitting Tribute to Luke.
Here it is (with help from Chuck Irving):


Kuke Warm with Brian Goodman and Connie

Luke Warm with Brian Goodman and Connie

Turn Me Up-T-Rex

The first time I met Luke I was at Scorgies about to take the stage in a band named The Party Dogs. He was working as a dj or something but all I knew was that he was bugging us, asking a lot of questions and hangin around. I didn’t know at the time he would prove to be our only fan that night and a much needed confident. The Party Dogs were not for the weak of heart or for the weak of mind. We were not a local band playing dress up on the weekends, or like most bands able to run back to the suburbs at the end of the night to the comfort of their Blondie posters, and rice cakes. As we hit the stage the sparse crowd of local snobs moved away like scared rabbits. Even the owner the big bad Scorgie himself took refuge among his constituents. Only Luke stood alone in the middle of the room screaming at the top of his lungs as we ended ” I Politician,” with kwami Joseph slamming down on his talking drums and R.U. Sirius screaming; “fuck off,” to the posers in the back. That was my first introduction to the man that would later lift me off the back of my drum seat with a guitar style that both destroyed and created its own universe. He was the Zen madman Ginsberg wrote about and ” The Tyger” Blake burned onto the page. That was 1980, our paths would meet again off and on through the next decade.

I never knew Luke’s real name. I had heard people refer to him as obnoxious Andy, but to me he was always Luke. Luke loved old blues guitarists like John Lee Hooker, Muddy Waters, and Howlin’ Wolf. He also loved Marc Bolan and could easily bridge the gap between these different artists. It was in the showmanship and the bravado they had in common. For a little over three years Luke stayed in his room and practiced guitar and in his own way conjured up a synthesis of styles based on what I call the primordial howl, or as I have written about before-The Big Fuck. Most of us fear the big fuck. We prefer the safer small fuck. Hendrix embraced this feeling, as did Cobain and a few others.

In 1990 or soon after, Luke and Chuck Irving had an idea for a band. They needed a drummer to fill out the roster of Chuck on bass, Luke on guitar, and Mark Marianetti (aka Thing) on vocals. My first response was your kidding, funny idea guys but no thanks. I was forty years old, fat, bloated and out of shape and had been through the local rock band thing too many times already, plus I was suffering from alcoholism and a huge drug problem. I wasn’t worried about Chuck I knew he could play and Thing was already a local legend but the last time I had seen Luke play he was terrible. But fate has a mind of her own and eventually Luke’s relentless persistence paid off.

I would acquiesce for the time being. I would show these guys what punk rock was all about and get a laugh-throw down some beers and a few lines and that would be it. We were in Pat Moschiano’s basement and at first it was terrible. I explained to them that I was a songwriter and an artist and maybe we should try and play a song. Luke was like a caged animal. He was sober at the time and had been sober for three years. Man he was pacing around chain smoking and fiddling with his guitar. He was also mumbling to himself and the whole time his guitar was making this hellish racket. I was listening to Chuck tell me how the song went and then I counted it off. From that opening beat I was in trouble. Luke’s guitar coiled around my neck and was choking me, while Chuck’s bass line was mocking me to play harder while throbbing this current of Hades through my skull. Thing was singing through an amp, but was so loud he sounded as if he was channeling God into the room. Later I would find out he was channeling God. My heart was going to blow I knew it. This was it I thought; these fucks are going to kill me. I kept pounding and Luke’s guitar kept climbing higher and higher and when he began playing the lead to The Hunger everything faded out. I was then suspended above my set, above the laws of earth. I was free! When the song ended I slumped over and grabbed my chest. Luke was so concerned and kind to this beat up old fuck and I was grateful. He looked at me with those huge eyes covered in sweat and mascara and said, ” Pat are you OK, do you need anything, man you look terrible.” And that was the genesis of SLT.

Fourteen years after the band broke up there is a new cd in the works. The cd is being produced at Saxon Recordings and is nearing completion. The songs have been selected from various recording sessions. This will be the first time people will be able to listen and experience the explosive nature of this definitive punk band at the height of their powers. There is also a new CD of songs in the works that will follow. Yes folks SLT lives! Luke can be one persistent spirit. Take a listen and judge for yourself the strange plane his guitar playing was framed from.

I never knew Andy Ogrodowski. Andy died on St Patrick’s Day 1995. Most people didn’t know him. They only thought they had seen him, or had a conversation with him, but I know that isn’t true. I know that isn’t true because most people are small fucks and it isn’t anyone’s fault. There is no one to blame, there never is. Big Fucks, Tygers, Lost Boys, White Niggers, Shadows-the name doesn’t matter, they all seek the high wire. Their love is not easy, so let it go…you never knew Luke. The only thing I do know is when he played we laughed like we were getting away with murder, cause we were. He would look at me lift up his guitar and say, “Ready!”

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Ned Hoskin, Peggi Fournier, Paul Dodd and Martin Edic pictured on Hi-Techs postcard that came with Archive Records single, Boogaloo Rendezvous” b/w “Subscriptions”. Thanks to Stan for postcard image.

The Hi-Techs were different. Our lead instrument was a soprano sax. We loved the Contortions and James White, Bush Tetras, Kid Creole and James Brown. The Hi-Techs recorded “Pompeii” in 1979 in the basement of Robert Slide’s (Robert  played bass with me in New Math’s first line up) house. Duane Sherwood played synth swishes. Tom Kohn and Marty Duda released the song on their “From The City That Brought You Absolutely Nothing” compilation. Ned joined the band in 1980 and we played about twenty gigs at Scorgies before forming Personal Effects. Our first gig was opening for New Math. This was fitting as I had left New Math a few months before and we were all friends. Kevin Patrick called us at the last minute, as in the night of the show. Peggi and I were already in our pjs when he called. We used to practice a lot so we were ready. We wrote all of our material and our songs were fast. We could barely keep up with them. We had lots of songs and never did the same set twice.

Dick Storms asked us to record a single for his new Archive Records label. Dick had already put out Bahama Mama’s “Lonesome Cowboy” single. I played with New Math on “Die Trying” which Dwight Glodell recorded so we lined him up to produce the single. We did this at Craig Fennesy’s studio in the basement of his house in Hilton. We met Kevin Vicalvi there and he became our sound man and friend for life. “Boogaloo Rendezvous” b/w “Subscriptions (Are My Prescription)” became the second release on Archive Records. Bill Jones printed the cover at Asymmetrical Press on Smith Street. We started playing gigs in Buffalo with bands like the Stains, Paper Faces, The Vores, The Jumpers, and 10,000 Maniacs.

Peggi sang most songs and Ned Hoskin sang a few. Ned liked the Clash and the Boss so his songs had a sincere, working class hero vibe to them. Ned wrote the anthem, “Warren”, for Brian Horton and Blue Hand played it every time we saw them. Ned was a great rhythm guitar player and a big part of the Hi-Techs sound.

We recorded a second single for Archive called “Screamin’ You Head”. It was backed with “A Woman’s Revenge,” a funky number that was based on the Kiss and Darling photo novellas that we used to devour. You could buy them at Bertha’s on East Main near where we practiced. Bertha was too big to get up from behind the counter so she barked orders at another woman who just couldn’t move fast enough for Bertha. “Screamin’ You Head” got quite a bit of play in clubs in NYC. A Danceteria DJ named Iolo was instrumental in getting us club dates in New York and eventually our deal with Cachalot Records but by then we had morphed into Personal Effects.

One of the most interesting gigs Hi-Techs did was a live performance at Channel 31 in 1980 (before it went Fox) with Ozzy Osbourne. There was some other band on the bill too but I can’t remember who that might have been. It seems like Marty Duda had something to do with this date. They tried to record all three of us in one night and Ozzy went first. When we got there Ozzy’s roadies were all drunk. They had spent most of the night in the bar downstairs on the corner of Alexander and East. And they took forever to get their stuff taken down. We set up around three in the morning and played three songs – “Pompeii”, “Boogaloo Rendezvous” and “A Woman’s Revenge”. Here is a video of that performance. Channel 31 used the live audio in the first song and then they synced the footage of our second and third songs to the vinyl versions of those songs because they fucked up the sound. And they got Kathy Buckley to prance around as if she had anything to do with the band. That kind of bummed us out at the time.

Hi-Techs – “Pompeii,” “Screamin You Head” and “A Woman’s Revenge”


(From the Channel 31 show “After Hours,” recorded sometime in 1980-81)
To view this video in high quality, go to YouTube and select the “watch in high quality” link.

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Robert Slide, first bass player for New Math, sent this photo and note on White Riot, Rochester, New York’s first live punk rock band. Greg Prevost (from the Chesterfield Kings) got there first on record with his Distorted Levels single.


Paul Armstrong – guitar, Mark Schwartz – keyboards, Kevin Patrick – vocals, Paul Dodd – drums, Gary Trainer – bass rehearsing in a basement in 1977

Surprisingly, I was able to find these shots of White Riot practicing in the basement of a house shared by Gary and Mark. The story behind how I got these is as follows:

I went to high school with Dale (NM) and the person he moved to Rochester with, Joanne. Both Joanne and I went to RIT (I was a year ahead of her) – during my second year there, I lived on the same floor as Paul Armstrong. We did a lot of music and partying together so I really got to know Paul. When White Riot played at RIT, Joanne saw them and got Paul’s practice address (Gary’s house) and set up a time to see them play – which is how I got these shots. Imagine my surprise when a month or so later, Dale asked me to take him to an audition, and it was White Riot (now playing under the name Erector Set) – Paul was tired of the commute from Syracuse and hence, Dale joined what was to become New Math.

Note: Paul Armstrong went on to play in a number of Syracuse bands. He played Scorgies with the Flash Cubes and New Math played many gigs in Syracuse with Paul’s bands. As Robert says, Dale Mincey took Paul’s place when the group changed its name to New Math. Mark Schwartz quit but rejoined New Math a few years later and stayed on when the band changed their name to Jet Black Berries. Kevin and Gary became the core of New Math, Gary switched to guitar and Robert Slide played bass in New Math. Paul Dodd left New Math and formed the Hi-Techs and Personal Effects.

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New Math, Live on Channel 13’s Morning Break

At the height of their popularity, New Math were asked to play live on the WOKR-13 weekday show, Morning Break.  A  typical AM TV show for housewives, with some news, community calendar, maybe a cooking segment  & usually some kind of live remote from somewhere around town.  I have no clue who thought that the average housewife or retiree would want to see New Math, or how the appearance was even set up.  I just remember being told it was gonna be live from Scorgies, and I had to be there by 8AM to set up for a 10:15 broadcast.  I made arrangements to go into work late & had the guys in the AV club at Sutherland High set up the video machine to record it for me.

I remember internal chatter going back & forth on what 2 songs they should play, with one idea being to re-write the lyrics to “The Pipes of Pan”, changing it into “The Pots and Pans”.  They settled on “American Survival” first, and then “They Walk Among You” after the short interview.  

We decided to use a chemical fog machine without telling the shows producers, so I got that set up & hidden under the drum riser before the TV crew showed up.   As the drum & bass breakdown in the middle of the song arrived, I hit the fog switch & let it flow to the point of overload.  The cameraman had to retreat from his closeup of Roy, to a long shot from the middle of the dancefloor, as he couldnt see anything in the dense cloud.  This was a one camera shoot so he did all the moves live, & did a pretty good job. The fog gag turned out to be an even swap, deception-wise, as the TV crew didnt tell me that they were gonna process the video feed with the ‘strobing’ feature of their video time base corrector, back at the station, during the instrumental sections of the song. 

After American Survival ended the TV reporter introduced them as “New Wave”, and Kevin had to correct her “No, its New Math”.  This was followed by a lame interview, as she asked them why they wore such strange clothes (as the clip will show, they werent wearing anything strange).  Then after the band played “They Walk Among You”, they took phone calls from the housewives.  Equally lame.  I remember one housewife saying “I’d rather listen to a love song.” and Kevin saying “Well, then you should do that.”  I have that all on tape somewhere buried deep, but it’s probably better left buried.  I just kept a copy of the performance stuff accessible.

So here’s American Survival.  I thought it came off great, and the video recording of it stands the test of time. The bands soundman Pee-Wee did a mix with grit, that must have woken them up at the senior home. Worth turning up loud thru the stereo.  It showcases the band at their best, playing at the best place to see them, Scorgies.  To me, its a perfect snapshot of what it they were like back in the day. In addition, it shows how far ahead of its time Gary’s song was.  Take a listen to the lyrics and then apply them to todays headlines of economic collapse.  Even tho it was written about the Reagan 80s, its spot on 20+ years later. 

Duane

If you click on the link you can see the clip in Hi-Res. (I would let either version load fully before playing).
New Math: American Survival, Live

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From the Gary Trainer Archives comes this wry piece penned for the press kit of “Die Trying.” Link to .pdf of press kit here:

New Math CBS promo photo #1

New Math CBS promo photo #1

Kevin Patrick writes:
“New Math is a band from Rochester NY, formed in fall 76, At that time, even Newsweek hadn’t yet distorted new wave into the contagious disease it was to be tagged for almost two years following. Yet, local bands playing original songs thru minimal equipment were seldom tolerated in the major metropolis, not to mention the smaller “burgs’ of America, And as radio fought to preserve the past -believe it – so did the club owners. Unfortunately, they were the ones with paychecks that literally allowed bands to survive day to day. It was real rough in the beginning, but then times changed. And somehow, New Math survived it all, finding they’d built up a healthy following around the New York state area in the process.

Founding members Kevin Patrick,, Gary Trainer and Dale Smeadley were eventually solidified by Bob McCarthy and Mark Schways and were accepting gigs anywhere; the circus, shopping mails, weddings, church socials and even a car wash grand opening. The usual ploy was claiming they were whatever type music was required for the occasion, and thereby shocking bystanders. In addition people began learning about their spicy pasts,’ Dale for instance, played the part of a child from Saturn on an early Star Trek feature Kevin solicited rock stars autographs thru the mail and just recently scored the final signature of Dave Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick and Tich, Gary lost his job in the purchasing dept. of St. John’s Nursing home by ordering $1700.00 worth of guitars and amplifiers thru his office, and ‘butch’ Bobby has been arrested more than once for hustling pool game wagers in gay bars to make ends meet. The resulting recognition got the band some opening slots for national acts passing thru the area. Response was more than favorable, and the confidence gained thru work with bands such as John Cale, Ultravox, 999,, Damned, Willie Alexander and Eddie and The Hot Rods, gave New Math the ultimate chance to move the forefront of their local territory.

Always thinking about their financial situation, the band began asking audiences for contributions. Its been a great gimmick, backfiring only once at a gig with the Ramones. They, were becoming extremely annoyed as the opening band (NM), filed past for a second encore, and so, instructed their road crew to scarf up the change that some 1200 people had showered the band with – and ultimately refused to give it back at the end of the night. Yet, with their odd earnings, the band managed to record “Die Trying” and “Angela” in a 5 hour session at Christmas ’78. After we did the recording we found we didn’t have any money to press it. Luckily, Reliable Records in London loved it, and put the thing out. The resulting press and radio play in the UK gamed attention from major labels, and the band has finally signed with CBS0 Sure we still think about money, but don’t worry as much8 We just finished some more songs – unrushed -in the studio and they are stellar.’ promises Dale.
The real thrust behind New Math is still the same guiding light that started them out in ’76 – to make people dance and watch them have fun. They do it everytime – so catch them as soon as you can. Oh yeah, chant “New Math adds up” to yourself in your spare time as well!

SINGLE
CBS 7916 “DIE TRYING”                12.10.79

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New Math in Recoding Studio

New Math in Recording Studio

The scene in Rochester needed to be recorded, pressed to vinyl and then distributed to the masses. Today’s post is an article from Rochester’s City Magazine profiling local entrepreneur Richard Storms and his label, Archive Records.

New Math - "Older Women" b/w "Restless Kind"

New Math - Older Women b/w Restless Kind

There’s a growing movement among rock groups to perform their own works. And local recording facilities are helping that thrust.
by Gregory Lewis


HiTechs - Boogaloo Rendezvous" b/w "Subscriptions (are My Prescription)"

Hi-Techs - Boogaloo Rendezvous b/w Subscriptions (Are My Prescription)

One of the more fascinating aspects of the revival of creativity and energy in the rock music scene is the tremendous upsurge in recording activity that we are currently experiencing. In Rochester that activity centers on a newly formed record label, Archive Records, and on several local bands, including New Math, Bahama Mama, and the Hi-Techs.

Click here for article.

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Uncle Roger

Uncle Roger

 

Roger McCall was an original supporter of the growing alternative rock scene back in the early days of Scorgies.  

As the overnite DJ on WCMF, he had a special relationship with everyone working trick shifts at Kodak, or the other factories, or the 24hr Wegmans, etc.  In the early days after college, as I was job hunting, I did a lot of short term factory work, often on overnite shifts. No matter where I was working, his show was always playing in sync out of countless small radios, echoing all over the warehouse floor.

He started a show called Homegrown where he played local bands tapes or indie singles, had them come in for live interviews, and always talked up their shows.  This led to a series of Homegrown compilation albums where many of the local bands had their first (and sometimes only) recordings released.

He & Kevin Patrick started up a late nite show on ‘CMF called “Import/Export” where they played a lot of the UK singles Kevin was collecting as well as good stuff coming out here that the station normally wouldnt touch. National recording acts that passed thru to play Scorgies often stopped by ‘CMF after their show to talk with Roger. 

He wasn’t at a lot of Scorgies shows, because he was on the air at that time, but I can’t think of another local media personality that was as supportive.  He was never malicious, even in private he would never say anything negative about any local band.  I remember Paul & Peggi & I doing an impromptu little collaborative recording & performance project called the Three Stools. We recorded 3 or 4 songs in my bedroom. I knew Rogers tastes in music enough to know he wouldnt like this stuff at all.  I also knew him well enough to think that he would tell me that he didnt like it. There was a lot he could pick apart about it, but when I asked him what he thought all he would say was “I love the concept”. A true gentleman.

I moved to NYC & hadnt seen Roger for well over 10 yrs, when I ran into him unexpectedly at 6:30 AM one morning during a visit home.  I was leaving the East Ave Wegmans with coffee, as he was coming in, having just gotten off the air.  It was literally like we hadnt talked in a week, it was so great to see him.

Roger was murdered near Bulls-head a few years ago. Killed on the street at nite, in a crime that was never solved. Maybe others can shed some light, but to me it seems like there wasnt much effort to solve it.  I never heard much about WCMF leading the charge or putting pressure on the city to go the extra mile in finding the killer. He definitely deserved more.

One thing I know for sure, there isnt a band in Rochester, then or now, whose path isn’t somehow easier because of Roger McCall and his support for local music.

Duane

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This is a diagram of Duane Sherwood’s light set-up at Scorgies. Apparently he wasn’t going to be able to make a gig and he may have left these visual instructions for Jeanne Perri who often helped us behind the scenes. Unlike other clubs at the time, the sound system and lights were always at Scorgies. But it seemed only Duane knew what to do with the lights.

When Duane wasn’t behind the board, even when some relatively big name band was on the stage, the lights would not be focused on the players, not clustered in any logical order so that blue and red lights would both be on a subject at once cancelling each other out, or all the lights would be flashing all the time. Duane carefully orchestrated the back row of lights to work in tandem with the front spots and he was able to produce startling results. He paced himself too. The lighting produced a mood that fit the music and punctuated the highlights. And he always saved a big bang for the right moment.


Duane Sherwood and Jeanne Perri doing lights at Scorgies

Duane did lights for New Math as well as Personal Effects and the Majestics. We took him with us to New York, Boston, Cleveland and Washington. We could hardly play without him. And it wasn’t just lights, Duane’s theatrical flair was largely responsible for the direction of the multimedia shows that we did at the Community Playhouse, RIT, the Top of the Plaza and laser light show at the Planetarium.

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It was fun going to band practice while New Math developed their sound and songs. First at a house off Park Ave. where Gary and Mark lived. Then they moved to their first practice space in the Cox Building and later to another there. I remember the first one was huge and cavernous. The second was better sound-wise and had windows that overlooked St. Paul and the side street where the Adult Bookstore resided. An easy walk down the street to Scorgies for a beer after practice. Somewhere along the way Michelle Ford, Sue Metro, Tim Dodd (Paul’s brother) and I started jamming in the closet of their practice space. We had a really long gestation period and had trouble coming up with a name (Rhonda’s Radio?) and the music ambled all over the place but we had fun (they later formed Targets). Then Paul decided to leave New Math and we joined up to form Hi-Techs with Martin and Ned. During this time, everyone lived and breathed music, whatever they were doing, and our lives are forever intertwined. So many of us from that time still are friends and share some common history. Personal Effects evolved out of Hi-Techs when Ned left the band and Bob joined us. That was in 1981. The PE story is in itself a long, involved one like any band’s. I’ll just say that we played together through the 80’s and then after a hiatus, formed Margaret Explosion which continues to play today as an improvisational, instrumental jazz band.

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